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pwnsawsage
Wed Nov 28 2012, 05:46PM


Steam Alias: STEAM_0:1:16556000
Class: 5 Star General
Posts: 293
Liked 13 times in 5 posts

As much as i hate some weapons or sets, i think things should remain as they are.
I see it more as not the weapon but the individual using the weapon for how they like to play to an advantage.

Lets use the dead ringer spy and the ever dreaded axtinguisher pyro for example. If an engie is having that much trouble with a dead ringer spy, then the pyro could be even more engie supportive not only by continuously spy checking but also going homewrecker to to knock off sappers... instead off running around and concentrating on setting up easy axtinguisher kills.

Like i said, its not only the weapon but the person using the weapon or set to consecutively go the weapon combo they want instead of adapting or changing to a class or weapon that is helpful to someone else or the team in other ways.

I also agree with opi. There is always a counter to shut certain combos or sets with bonuses down.









[ Edited Wed Nov 28 2012, 05:50PM ]
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AntiHick
Wed Nov 28 2012, 09:04PM


Steam Alias: TheAntiHick
Class: Soldier
Posts: 3602
Liked 3 times in 1 posts

To be fair, there really isn't any way for a lone engy to counter the sapper.

Kill the spy first (like any good engy should) and you spend the rest of the game constantly upgrading your sentry over and over again. Kill the sapper first (in the half second time span you're allowed) and you get stabbed and they sap it anyway.

The only real counter would be to have two dedicated engies per gun, or an engy/pyro camping the gun the whole round.

I don't really believe in gun camping, even on defense, except when the enemies are making a push. And even then I find it more helpful as an engy to try to sneak around and shotgun the medic in the back.

It's so frustrating having 30 seconds of tedious work undone in the time that it takes to turn around and bring out your wrench.







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DrakeMegrim
Sun Jan 06 2013, 02:52PM


Steam Alias: WD!!! Drake
Class: Demoman
Posts: 3518
Liked 113 times in 74 posts

I'd like to bring this back up. The new sapper makes this game unplayable for me and that sniper set is almost has bad. I'm not sure how we're going to implement this is we have a consensus but more often then not I either quit playing engie or just leave the server. :-/







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Stompbox
Mon Jan 07 2013, 03:24PM


Steam Alias: Stompbox
Class: Pyro
Posts: 16
Liked 0 times in 0 posts

I don't like the idea of removing/altering weapons.. There's already a lot of weird stuff going on with this server (build 0, quick-upgrading dispensers/teleporters, medic leash).

Believe me, I'd love to get rid of bullshit weapons.. nobody is more frustrated than I am about DR+spycicle (completely, absolutely, indisputably broken in CTF), but as others have said, if we remove/modify weapons, even with community consensus, I think it is a slippery slope that we shouldn't start down.

As someone that loves to play Pyro I hereby swear that whenever any of you engineers are having trouble with a spy using RTR, I will be your personal Pybro and make it my mission to crush that spy skull to mush and knock his RTR off your shit post-haste. You just gotta ask. <3 <3 <3









[ Edited Mon Jan 07 2013, 03:25PM ]
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DrakeMegrim
Mon Jan 07 2013, 03:33PM


Steam Alias: WD!!! Drake
Class: Demoman
Posts: 3518
Liked 113 times in 74 posts

I really don't think it's this slippery slope. We've modded the server config pretty heavily from standard. Reduced metal costs for engie, all of the class limits, reduced spawn wave timer, rubber band medic (even with the quickfix around), and 5 caps. None of that has pushed us down this slope. Why would limiting one weapon and hat push us over?







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silent
Mon Jan 07 2013, 05:52PM



Steam Alias: silent
Class: Spy
Posts: 1737
Liked 11 times in 3 posts

DrakeMegrim wrote ...

I really don't think it's this slippery slope. We've modded the server config pretty heavily from standard. Reduced metal costs for engie, all of the class limits, reduced spawn wave timer, rubber band medic (even with the quickfix around), and 5 caps. None of that has pushed us down this slope. Why would limiting one weapon and hat push us over?

Because the modifications we've made don't "take away" anything-literally. I don't think it's in our best interest as a casual server to limit a weapon and a hat, especially if some players paid to complete a set or gain an item (through the store). Also, why limit just those two items then if we're going for "weapons that make people angry/consider unfair"? If a large group of players came to our forums and complained about another weapon, item, or set, would we have to remove that too?

DrakeMegrim wrote ...

I think an interesting work around would be if the RTR only took one wrench hit to knock off. I'd be fine with a full health level 2 taking 200 metal to upgrade.


I think this is the appropriate avenue to pursue.







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AntiHick
Mon Jan 07 2013, 07:34PM


Steam Alias: TheAntiHick
Class: Soldier
Posts: 3602
Liked 3 times in 1 posts

None of the mods that we have implemented have said "Okay valve, your content is overpowered and we're going to remove it."

That is why it's a slippery slope. Once you decide that one weapon is too much there isn't any sort of guide for what is or isn't allowed anymore.

As I said before, I'm going to sit back and see what community consensus is on this--I'm not going to help you campaign for it though. I have mixed feelings on this one.

I see other admins whining about the sniper set constantly, but we have a 4+ year admin who uses the sniper set pretty much every time she plays. If removing RTR becomes justified then I'll probably find myself on the side of any person or group of persons in the future arguing to remove the DR entirely, because it really is fucking broken on CTF and that's all we ever play.

*shrug* mixed feelings all around, but if you manage to get enough support to make it happen more power to ya.

I feel like, though, even if RTR is banned you're probably not going to be satisfied drake. Lets be honest here, how much defense engy do you even play? I feel like competitive is where your heart lies, lately, and this isn't a competitive server. I'm not sure that removing one or two weapons is actually going to satisfy you and make you suddenly enjoy playing tgb again.







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DrakeMegrim
Mon Jan 07 2013, 11:05PM


Steam Alias: WD!!! Drake
Class: Demoman
Posts: 3518
Liked 113 times in 74 posts

I get your points. I'll throw up a poll and see what the community votes to do. I have been playing engie quite a bit lately. I'll always go engie if we don't have any (defense) on the team. I don't really have issue with any other weapon in the game. The sniper set is annoying but I just go battlemnts solly to counter.







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